Transcripts
Transcript of a 3-way conversation recorded on June 11th 2004
between John Githongo, former PS Governance and Ethics, David Mwiraria, Minister for Finance and Kiraitu Murungi, Minister for Justice & Constitutional Affairs

On Friday, June 11, 2004, then Finance Minister, David Mwiraria asked Governance and Ethics PS, John Githongo to drop the Anglo Leasing investigation because it could bring down President Mwai Kibaki's government. He made the request in the presence of then Justice and Constitutional Affairs Minister, Kiraitu Murungi.
The lawyer Fred Ojiambo had been arrested by the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) and held for questioning at Kileleshwa Police Station. Ojiambo had been buying space in the newspapers on behalf of Anglo-Leasing and Forensic Laboratories Ltd, a UK-based company (or their agents/representatives), the identity of whom he had refused to divulge even after repeated requests from the KACC.
Internal Security Minister, Chris Murungaru was in London at the time. Upon learning of Ojiambo's arrest he had called his Justice and Constitutional Affairs counterpart, Kiraitu Murungi. Ojiambo was released without charge on Thursday night. At around 11.00 am the following day, first Finance Minister, David Mwiraria, then Justice and Constitution Affairs Minister, Kiraitu Murungi showed up at PS John Githongo's office at State House, Nairobi.


In the recording, Githongo is heard briefing the two ministers about why the KACC had ordered Ojiambo's arrest

Transcript follows:
“Githongo: I think that the case of Ojiambo is a very straight forward one...
Kiraitu: Hmm..
Githongo: He started putting out statements on behalf of Anglo Leasing...which is a suspect in a criminal investigation of conspiracy to defraud the Kenya Government of 2.7 billion shillings.... 
He was called several times very nicely and asked...can you just advise us who they are, we don't actually need...we don't want anything else, we just want to know...we have a suspect who has disappeared, we want to know who it is...and... he talked to them on the phone a number of times...
[Interrupted by telephone call].. hello… yes, oh yes, Gate D.. Gate D, D for Delta, Delta… I will ask someone to come down to escort you... Dave Mwangi is downstairs at gate D. He should be shown up then he will wait in your room while I finish here.
 
So...Mr Mwangi...Mr Ojiambo proved evasive, the anti-corruption authority wrote to him officially ...I also wrote to him...The response which he gave to the anti-corruption authority in writing was complete contradiction to the statement which was subsequently carried in the newspaper....it was as if he was lying....where he says he is not in possession of certain facts, but the statement that he has put in the papers means he must be in possession of those facts...
So they said that what we need to do..what we need you to..to..assist us with..is...this information...we know your just acting for somebody...and we are not actually interested in you. He became increasingly belligerent.....on the telephone. Summons were issued which were ignored, and in a fairly childish way in my opinion, from what I was...because I asked for a description.. (Gideon) Mutua was here this morning.....where I think they would arrive and he would skip out of one door...as if he is...hiding..[interrupted by Mwiraria and Kiraitu muttering to each other]…
Githongo: The head of anti-corruption.... And Mmm...so the matter is now before a court, because summons were issued.... assist us and ...the matter now is before court....and...he rejected that.
 Very unusual.
Mwiraria: Mmm..
Githongo: My initial thinking...[Interrupted by Mwiraria]
Mwiraria: No! no! Bwana Githongo..
Githongo: Mmm..
Mwiraria: Hii kitu...
Githongo: Mmm..
Mwiraria: If we are not careful..
Githongo: Mmm...
Mwiraria: Will come down with our government.....
Githongo: Mmm..
Mwiraria: What I am suggesting..
Githongo: Mmm...
Mwiraria: Why don't you...
Githongo: Mmm..
Mwiraria: and anti-corruption, and I am saying this in your presence Mweshimiwa (referring to Kiraitu)...
Githongo: Mmm..
Mwiraria: drop this matter...
Githongo: Mmm..
Mwiraria: I will get..
Githongo: Mmm...
Mwiraria: to the root of the matter, I will find out who it is..
Githongo: Mmm...
Mwiraria: in my own way…
Githongo: Mmm...
Mwiraria: Ya... I have not appraised it….....but I will find out exactly...ya...that information.
Githongo: Mmm...
Mwiraria: but..if we continue this way...
Githongo: Mmm..
Mwiraria: we start harrassing Ojiambo...ya....
Githongo: Mmm...
Mwiraria: you never know...
Githongo: What he might say..
Mwiraria: What he might say..and who else...
Githongo: he will pick on...
Mwiraria: he will pick on...and who will go down with Anglo Leasing.....
Githongo: Actually he...was extremely, from what I am advised...very belligerent at first yesterday...but by evening he had changed completely..
Kiraitu: Mmm...He was released?
Githongo: He was released, yes.
Mwiraria: Was he held?!
Githongo: He was held....he was arrested...he was officially arrested yesterday...at around four o'clock until he was released at nine in the evening.
Kiraitu: Did he record a statement?
Githongo: Emm...I do not think so...
Mwiraria: Did he give you any information?....Why don't we do this mweshimiwa [to Kiraitu]...

Kiraitu Mmm…
Mwiraria: ...as I said...I wrote a memo … which is interesting... You know when I came...and we talked here.... nili pigia Magari...there is a day I came from Kampala and I found Magari had just gone to the PAC and he had said he knew Anglo Leasing so when I went back, I told you why I talked to H.E (His Exellency), H.E wanted information before I went back...asked for information...I got the contract, I went through it, and wrote a memo to H.E. ....And H.E. agreed that you should try and get back the money. So I found out from my officers who know where the other money had come from... I didn't even ask them to give me the names. (Laughter) So I said, go and see them..(continued laughter)...tell them.... tunataka hio ingine ...the money in know in the Central Bank. It has been returned now.

 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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